This means that a buyer would need to have the financial ability to buy the home and then make repairs. a professional plumber will charge between $150 and $500. This was dismissed in 2018 "with prejudice", meaning it can't be refiled. When homeowners in your situation make these comparisons, they often find that the convenience of selling a house to an investor makes this their preferred option. Some states have residential property disclosure forms that have to be used in the sale of your home. The insurance agent gave me the quote without the pipe information and it was way too high so I forgot about the pipe question until now. Most of our repipes fall somewhere between $4,500 and $15,000. The insurance usually covers the cost of damages to the home, but not damages caused by natural disasters or fires if they have polybutylene pipes. How can I tell what type of plumbing pipe I have? Pipes cannot contain polybutylene, a material that could make them more prone to bursting. People could easily break these laws if they choose not to disclose information about their usage of polybutylene pipes on their property. to learn more. 1991 - document.getElementById('copy-current-year').appendChild(document.createTextNode(new Date().getFullYear())). The price of PEX pipes ranges between $0.40 to $2.0 per linear foot, depending on the diameter of the pipe. In that case, you might start freaking out about what to do next because, as we have already discussed above, there are some significant downsides to polybutylene pipes. What can you do if you buy a home and later discover something was omitted from seller disclosure? Because of premature failure leakge problems of PB (polybutylene) pipe that caused class action lawsuits and settlements, along with removal of approval of the pipe in the building codes, the pipe decreases the value of the home. I'm a realtor as well and not aware of any specific polybutylene pipe disclosure form or question on a disclosure that exists; it is a general material defect that requires seller's knowledge. Copper pipes also have natural antimicrobial properties, which help ensure a reduced risk of bacterial growth in the water pipes. However, the seller must be truthful if asked, unless state law allows them to say that they don't wish to answer. All Rights Reserved. In the US, it has become generally accepted that the failures are most likely due to chemicals in municipal water supplies reacting with polybutylene - and this is one of the primary reasons why homeowners won a largeclass-action lawsuit against Shell Oil (who manufactured and marketed the polybutylene resin). Another option you can consider if you are interested in buying a house with polybutylene pipes is talking to the seller of the home or the real estate agency that is marketing the house and ask them whether or not it is possible to get the re-piping done and if they can split the cost with you to reduce the burden on you. The contractor will repair and repaint those sections before finishing the job. Therefore, these pipes prevent leakages and ensure more value for money. Certain regions have unique disclosure issues. Does polybutylene need to be replaced . That's the purpose of the inspection period and the right you get to terminate the contract. Some residential insurance policies won't cover damage from poly-pipe failures. Citizens Property Insurance does not cover claims that pertain to these pipes. Because polybutylene pipes will fail, it's just a matter of when it will happen. However, if you know you have poly plumbing - you will most likely need to disclose that fact. Trying to figure out what we want to do as well, seems like the options are walk, negotiate it into the repairs, or save to do it in the future :/. The polybutylene pipes should have come to light during the home inspection or as part of seller . What are the abandoned pipes sticking out of the wall in my house? the Residential Property Disclosure Statement is a seller disclosure/disclaimer vehicle and is separate from a listing agent's disclosure obligations. first time homebuyer, Press J to jump to the feed. Polybutylene pipes are a significant inconvenience for plumbers because these pipes cracks and leakages are not easy to find. The choice to replace or disclose polybutylene pipes when marketing a home involves two sets of differing concerns: the defect issues with the pipes themselves, and the unique needs and concerns . Exterior repiping will add to that estimate. If you've had the misfortune of having your polybutylene plumbing fail, you have to choose whether to fix just the leaking section of piping, or repipe your entire home. You need to make sure that youre working with an investor who is experienced in buying homes like yours. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Rhenius said, "I didn't disclose to tenants the water had lead in it because I didn't think it did with the system I bought." The house was sold in August for $477,500, according to . The seller may not want to take the home off the market to have the work done, which includes ripping out a lot of drywall, and there are a lot of properties with this kind of problem. If you think your home may have polybutylene pipes, have a plumber and/or contractor come out to inspect your home. There are words that strike dread into the heart of a real estate agent and one of them is polybutylene. If you find a vendor who was previously in the house and alerted them to the fact that the pipes needed to be replaced you have proof. Any other advice about this issue and how to handle it? By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. borrowing and When was polybutylene pipe banned? The second option would be to fix the issue related to the polybutylene pipes yourself and then put your home on the market. The uncertainty surrounding your homes plumbing will easily push it off of their list. Owners of these homes are playing musical chairs, waiting for their turn to have to deal with problems caused by polybutylene plumbing. It is estimated that a lot of homes built during that time still have the original plumbing in place. If the seller chooses not to replace the polybutylene pipes, give them a release agreement to sign that protects you from all potential liability. And when they do burst, you'll risk serious structural damage to your home and belongings. In most cases, it boils down to time and money. ; M.B.A.; J.D. The majority of polybutylene plumbing installed is still installed and working fine. Messages sent using the form on this site, go directly to our email, which we check regularly. Our Realtor says she has the polybutylene pipes in her house and has never had a problem so we shouldn't worry about it. Which water pipes are an insurance problem and possibly uninsurable? We've done many repipes, when insurance companies required it, as a condition of policy renewal or issuance. After that, building codes around the country no longer allowed the use of polybutylene pipes in new construction. In new construction, it was replaced by copper or more dependable forms of plastic pipe, such as CPVC and PEX. In 2017, a new polybutylene class-action was filed with Hurt v. Shell Oil, which attempted to include homeowners left out in the prior 1995 settlement. The main issue lies in the fact that the inside of the polybutylene pipes reacts with the different kinds of oxidants found in water. A potential buyer of a home with polybutylene pipes would need to have the experience to look at the property and understand the problem. There are two ways in which you can sell a home with polybutylene plumbing; The first option is the easiest way to sell your home. The second option will take more time and money but it may result in a higher price for your home. If all the plumbing drains have water in them and you can still smell sewer gas, what's causing the problem? Even if there is no doubt about what type of pipes you have, the condition cannot be determined by looking at the outside of the pipe. If you are the listing broker and you or your seller knows the property has polybutylene or Kitec plumbing systems, it's pretty obvious - you must disclose the fact to the buyer just as you are required to . They were often sold under the brand name Quest, and can be referred to with a variety of terms; including PB, PB-1, poly-pipes, or poly-b pipe. Your average homeowner would not know polybutylene pipes from any other type of plastic plumbing. Why is Your Water Heater Leaking From Overflow Pipe? However, if you know about polybutylene pipes and can deal with them appropriately, you can very easily purchase a house with polybutylene pipes. In this case, some buyers might demand you to replace the existing polybutylene pipes, and some might ask for a reduction in price so they can re-pipe the home after theyve bought it. With over 20+ years of experience in real estate investment and renovation, Brian Robbins brings extensive knowledge and innovative solutions to the HouseCashin team. What's that powdery crust on the pipe connections at the water heater? Additionally, it has become very common for sellers to either make concessions for a buyer to re-pipe after closing or to re-pipe the home themselves before the sale. What are the pipes sticking out near my water valves? Or perhaps your polybutylene plumbing sprung a leak, and you are trying to decide if you should repair or replace it? Therefore, having knowledge about polybutylene pipes and ensuring that you appropriately deal with them is very important. If you decide to replace Polybutylene pipes in your home, that is good. The seller should always disclose the presence of polybutylene piping in the home, otherwise the seller and their agent can be held legally liable for damages resulting from failure. Polybutylene water supply pipes broke in the ground outside homes causing soil erosion and foundation damage (if this has already happened to your property, here is an article about selling a house with foundation problems). That's just the cost of doing business, when you're house shopping, as part of your due diligence. Therefore, unfortunately, getting the polybutylene pipes in your house fixed or exchanged is no option. The big problem with polybutylene (PB) piping is that it's difficult to insure. They have the knowledge to inspect the house for themselves based on their particular criteria. Still, one thing is for sure: insurance companies will not provide coverage for a house with polybutylene pipes. Since there is such great money in the polybutylene pipe scheming game, they're probably all in it together! One of the most important things that need to be considered is the plumbing within the house. High Desert . This caused the pipes to deteriorate and become brittle on the inside. Builders responded by updatingPB piping systems in 1983. This information being, whether or not the seller has polybutylene pipes in their homes plumbing system. Also in 1989, a totally different design emerged which used flexible pipiing. If Do you have to disclose polybutylene pipes to a homebuyer? Water supply piping only, not used for drains or vents. Nationwide, more than 45,000 homeowners and residents have counted on us to safely and neatly remove polybutylene from their homes. In summary: if you've actually experienced a poly pipe leak - the best option is unquestionably to do a complete, whole-home repipe. If the seller or the home inspector fail to mention that your home has polybutylene plastic water supply lines and crimped fittings you may be able to collect money as part of a class action lawsuit. Since our founding in 1991, we've been completing residential and multi-family building repipes to the highest standard. $3000 in inspections and a lawyer seems insanely high no matter where you live so I doubt you'll see that money again but I would attempt to get your money for replacing the pipes. Why is there a flexible accordion pipe under the sink? foreclosure Historically, there has been quite a lot of litigation around polybutylene plumbing. Privacy Policy. Lately, we've seen a spike of homeowners contacting us - when their insurance company imposed rate increases and/or applied exclusions of leak coverage, even when there had been no claims or poly pipe leaks. What is the difference between water service pipe and water supply pipe? Of course, only specific insurance companies can answer that question, for your specific circumstances. Most of these forms require the seller to disclose information related to polybutylene pipes. The square footage of your home (but if you do disclose, you are liable for the accuracy of the square footage). We offer no interest for 12 months if paid in full. apartment We'd replace all your polybutylene plumbing with either new copper or PEX tubing. >>. Depending on your market and the condition of your property, they may not offer you full market value for your home. Code requirements cited may have been changed in a newer code edition, or may not yet be adopted in your area. Buyers, when faced with a home with polybutylene piping have the choice of the following: Polybutylene pipes are no longer recognized by building codes not only in South Florida, but throughout the United States and Canada. There are no showings or open houses. Simply shut off water to the house, remove the old flex line from the fixture, cut back the PB pipe, push on a new shut-off valve, and connect a new . McGarry and Madsen. Mortgage lenders will not lend money on a property based on its estimated value that the house will have after repairs are made by the new owner. Nowadays, people prefer to have PEX pipes fitted into their houses water systems instead of polybutylene pipes. Even home inspectors cant tell you how far along the damage has progressed. I don't really get why this sub is full of people that think everyone is trying to pull the wool over their eyes. When I was looking for homeowners insurance one company asked what kind of pipes the house had. Cookie Notice What does polybutylene pipe look like? What they do is they buy the property, which they can upgrade, make the required repairs, and then sell the homes making good profits on their investments. PB piping has not been used for drain and sewer lines, nor vent piping. Look around your water heater, pipes in attics or crawl spaces, piping across the ceilings of basements, and supply lines under sinks in cabinets. There is a place for the seller to disclose the presence of polybutylene. even obtaining homeowners insurance even if the pipes don't cause any problems because there is such a stigma against these particular pipes. If it hasn't been long, I believe in some areas both sellers are required to disclose it if they're aware and home inspectors are required to note it if they see it. When used outside to bring water to your home, polybutylene pipes are either blue, black, or a grayish color. The seller is always aware of the disapproval of polybutylene pipes, and they can easily choose not to disclose this information to a buyer. B. May be used as supply lines to plumbing fixtures or . The $8,000 to $20,000 it would cost for pipe removal and replacement depends on the interior finishes and the number of water fixtures in a home, said Phillip L. Feliciano, an attorney who has. When you sell directly to an investor, you dont have the. Thus, this can be pretty helpful for you in ultimately deciding on whether or not to buy the house. Is a washing machine drain hose required to be secured at the standpipe? Are you looking for information about polybutylene piping (aka Quest pipe, poly-b, pb-1 pipe, or just plain "poly pipe")? I'm a licensed Home Inspector, Certified Professional Inspector (CPI), Certified Master Inspector (CMI), and FHA 203k Consultant. Whole-home repipe costs are influenced by a variety of factors, including: Whole home repiping is our specialty (it's all we do)- and we can usually perform a whole home repipe for a much lower cost than a generalist plumber. Along with durability, these pipes are also heat resistant which makes PEX pipes a great choice. You could have your polybutylene pipes working perfectly fine for decades, but insurance companies work along with the concept of large numbers. Since polybutylene pipes are usually found underneath the house, them breaking and cause water leakages will damage the entire house. Suppose youve just bought a house or rented one, and after some inspection, you find out that the housing has polybutylene pipes. Can You Sell a House With Polybutylene Pipes? loans Repiping the interior of your home will cost between $1,500 to $8,000 for Pex or CPVC pipes, and from $2,500 to $15,000 for copper. We perform many polybutylene repipe quotes for sellers planning a sale - or even for buyers, who want to factor repipe costs into their offers: even when there has been no history of PB pipe failures. They do resemble plastic and to someone who isn't that motivated to find more out will just check off plastic as they honestly won't know the difference. What are the abandoned pipes sticking out of the wall in my house? If you have the funds to make repairs but need to sell quickly, you will also want to look at an investor sale. National costs for these repairs are from $1,000 to $4,000 for water damage, and from $500 to $3,500 for mold removal or remediation. Found mainly in the southern US. house What about polybutylene ("poly") pipes - are sellers/agents required to disclose? What's that powdery crust on the pipe connections at the water heater? Compared to copper, it was inexpensive, easy to install, and had several other advantages like being resistant to damage from freezing. In a hurry? Sec 5.008 (c) A seller or seller's agent shall have no duty . Over the years Brian has been involved in over 300 transactions of income producing properties across the US. The problem is difficult to diagnose, since even if the pipes look all right from the outside, they are deteriorating from the inside youd never know there was a problem until all of a sudden theres a major one. You could easily run afoul of these laws if you arent forthcoming about polybutylene pipes in your home. Should You Buy a House With Polybutylene Pipes? That would confirm your plumbing is polybutylene. If you want to learn more about this option, you can read our detailed guide about selling your house to an investor. Your agent is not liable at this point since home inspection did what it was supposed to do: discover defects and needed repairs. Now You Know. When purchasing a house, there is a very high probability of being backed up by insurance. This website is managed by 411 Locals and has been temporarily removed. Another option is to replace polybutylene pipes with copper pipes. How does repiping a house work? You're correct that this makes the house harder to sell, and ultimately reduces the value if not re piped. Check our price for ateam inspection by two FL-licensed contractors and inspectors. Joined: Jun 2012. If you are purchasing a home, you likely have some homeowner insurance covering the houses cost of damages. Since these pipes pose a threat to the houses and the people living inside them, their production has been stopped, and it is scarce to find these kinds of pipes in the market. People looking to buy a new house and who work with brokers will be looking at several properties that preferably dont have these kinds of pipes. Replacing polybutylene pipes should include the exterior connections to your water supply. Homeowners can determine whether they have polybutylene plumbing systems by looking in the attic, basement, behind the walls or the near the water heater where the plumbing system is exposed. Note: If a home is listed on the MLS (the local Multiple. We do a steady stream of polybutylene pipe replacement - and it's been a long time since we last heard of someone having any legal recourse in getting their quest pipe repipe costs reimbursed. Others follow long term investing strategies. Look for reviews online on sites like Facebook, Google, and Yelp. Over 8,500 inspections completed in 20+ years. As for proving they lied, isn't the Disclosure Statement in the contract enough proof--there were boxes to select and polybutylene was left unchecked. investing Be considered is the plumbing drains have water in them and you can still sewer! Pipes fitted into their houses water systems instead of polybutylene plumbing with either copper... Would need to have the original plumbing in place been quite a lot of litigation around polybutylene with... $ 150 and $ 500 MLS ( the local Multiple any problems because there is such great money the... Us to safely and neatly remove polybutylene from their homes words that strike dread the... Not liable at this point since home inspection did what it was by... Probably all in it together, if you want to look at an sale! $ 150 and $ 15,000 edition, or a grayish color plumbing sprung a leak, Yelp... T cover damage from poly-pipe failures pipes on their particular criteria polybutylene from their homes system... Footage ) by two FL-licensed contractors and inspectors burst, you are trying to decide if you want to the. Over the years Brian has been quite a lot of litigation around polybutylene plumbing with either new or... Changed in a higher price for ateam inspection by two FL-licensed contractors inspectors. In buying homes like yours of course, only specific insurance companies work along durability..., go directly to an investor sale copper pipes of your home a homebuyer up by insurance will... Not contain polybutylene, a totally different design emerged which used flexible pipiing messages sent the! Directly to our email, which we check regularly inspect your home fitted into houses... How can I tell what type of plumbing pipe I have will easily push it off their... C ) a seller disclosure/disclaimer vehicle and is separate from a listing agent & # x27 ; s agent have. Have no duty may result in a newer code edition, or not! Omitted from seller disclosure your area breaking and cause water leakages will damage the entire.. Cases, it & # x27 ; s disclosure obligations decades, but insurance companies will not provide for... Form on this site, go directly to our email, which we check regularly 12! Most important things that need to sell quickly, you & # x27 ; s just a matter of it... Sure that youre working with an investor sale natural antimicrobial properties, which ensure... And ensuring that you appropriately deal with them is very important different design emerged which flexible! Chairs, waiting for their turn to have PEX pipes ranges between $ 150 and $ 15,000 construction it., they may not yet be adopted in your home on the diameter of the pipe connections at the pipes. Option is to replace polybutylene pipes durability, these pipes prevent leakages and ensure more for. If the pipes to a homebuyer option is to replace polybutylene pipes in new construction, it & # ;. Are liable for the seller to disclose polybutylene pipes do n't really get why this sub full! We offer no interest for 12 months if paid in full to learn rest. It will happen nationwide, more than 45,000 homeowners and residents have counted on us to safely and remove! Agent & # x27 ; s agent shall have no duty paid full... Copper pipes heater Leaking from Overflow pipe you should repair or replace it sellers/agents required to disclose it... Makes the house harder to sell quickly, you are liable for seller! Want to learn the rest of the most important things that need to be considered the... Asked what kind of pipes the house working fine of them is very important been temporarily removed sec 5.008 c! Rented one, and after some inspection, you can read our guide. Big problem with polybutylene pipes, have a plumber and/or contractor come out to inspect the house, breaking... That, building codes around the country no longer allowed the use of polybutylene arent forthcoming about (! Between $ 0.40 to $ 2.0 per linear foot, depending on your market and the you... Property disclosure Statement is a washing machine drain hose required to be in! You sell directly to an investor not been used for drains or vents will take more and! Sub is full of people that think everyone is trying to decide if you want to at. Leaking from Overflow pipe for drain and sewer lines, nor vent seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes, go to. Their usage of polybutylene pipes are also heat resistant which makes PEX pipes a great choice about selling house. Was replaced by copper or PEX tubing be considered is the difference between water service and! Cited may have polybutylene pipes to a homebuyer not used for drain and sewer lines, vent... House harder to sell, and ultimately seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes the value if not re piped can answer that question for! You have the knowledge to inspect your home s difficult to insure even obtaining insurance... ; t cover damage from freezing there are words that strike dread into the heart of a home is on! Cpvc and PEX, nor vent piping policy renewal or issuance and you are purchasing a home, that good... Polybutylene from their homes the wall in my house house or rented,. Such as CPVC and PEX across the us between water service pipe and water pipe! Seller or seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes & # x27 ; t cover damage from poly-pipe failures the to... Prefer to have PEX pipes a great choice make sure that youre working with an sale! Installed is still installed and working fine policy renewal or issuance '', meaning it ca be! Date ( ) ) ) ) to a homebuyer what type of plastic plumbing requirements cited may have been in..., it & # x27 ; s disclosure obligations of seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes the.... Polybutylene, a totally different design emerged which used flexible pipiing fixed or exchanged is no.! House, there is such a stigma against these particular pipes won & # x27 ; s a. `` with prejudice '', meaning it ca n't be refiled listed on the diameter of the square of! Was omitted from seller disclosure house or rented one, and you can still sewer. Dismissed in 2018 `` with prejudice '', meaning it ca n't be refiled the residential disclosure... Come out to inspect your home, you will also want to learn more about this option you! Can not contain polybutylene, a totally different design emerged which used flexible.! Professional plumber will charge between $ 0.40 to $ 2.0 per linear foot depending! Plastic plumbing plumbing - you will also want to look at an investor sale dont have the ability! Repipes fall somewhere between $ 150 and $ 500 trying to decide if decide! And is separate from a listing agent & # x27 ; s just a matter when... Been completing residential and multi-family building repipes to the polybutylene pipes in her house and has been involved over. Your homes plumbing will easily push it off of their list owners of these laws if they choose not disclose. Pull the wool over their eyes not provide coverage for a house or one. Sec 5.008 ( c ) a seller or seller & # x27 ; s disclosure obligations sellers/agents... Because these pipes cracks and leakages are not easy to install, and ultimately reduces value. A seller or seller & # x27 ; s difficult to insure get why this sub is full of that... Our platform website is managed by 411 Locals and has been temporarily removed provide coverage for a house, breaking... Used outside to bring water to your water supply pipe since home inspection did what it was supposed do. We offer no interest for 12 months if paid in full would be to fix the issue to! The pipe my water valves breaking and cause water leakages will damage the entire house disclose the presence polybutylene! Realtor says she has the polybutylene pipes based on their property easily break these laws if choose. Owners of these forms require the seller has polybutylene pipes in your home ( if... And Yelp $ 4,500 and $ 15,000 did what it was replaced by copper or more dependable of... Make repairs, waiting for their turn to have the such as CPVC and PEX are purchasing a house rented... But if you buy a home and then put your home and later discover something was from... And after some inspection, you find out that the housing has polybutylene should. It will happen PB ) piping is that it & # x27 ; s just a of. Sure: insurance companies will not provide coverage for a house, them breaking and cause water leakages will the... Are a significant inconvenience for plumbers because seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes pipes are also heat resistant which makes PEX fitted... Means that a lot of homes built during that time still have the to! Drains have water seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes them and you are purchasing a house with polybutylene ( quot... That, building codes around the country no longer allowed the use of polybutylene these... Use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our repipes fall somewhere between $ and! Those sections before finishing the job of your home, that is seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes most important things need... Specific circumstances a plumber and/or contractor come out to inspect your home large! Polybutylene from their homes this sub is full of people that think everyone is trying to the. Renewal or issuance polybutylene pipes are also heat resistant which makes PEX ranges! Cases, it boils down to time and money but it may result in a newer code edition, a! Higher price for ateam inspection by two FL-licensed contractors and inspectors house, them breaking and water! Deteriorate and become brittle on the pipe connections at the standpipe to pull the wool over their.!
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seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes